Warmachine!

[tehgeeksquad]

First off I would like to thank you for attempting to make this game, even if at this stage, you have not even begun production. I attended the conference at gencon and I got the impression that you are currently trying to sell the idea of the game to a publisher. I am kind of surprised that there are not many people discussing the game on your forums. I do hope however that they are plugging your warmachine game elsewhere so that marketing can give you a big fat wad of cash to make this game.

Games Workshop had to go through a lot of terrible games to finally get some good ones so hopefully people will generate enough buzz so that we don't have to suffer though any bad ones.

Anyways, other than plugging the game I would like to offer some ideas on game play that I have had.

I feel that games workshop did a very good job with their Dawn of War series and "Space Marine" looks very very promising. I think they made a very good choice early on (but particularly with DOW II), which was to create an previously unknown chapter with unknown characters. I personally feel that creating, customizing, and advancing your own characters the best part of a single player campaign.

In a single player campaign, playing a previously unknown warcaster from a unknown company, for example the 79th Iron Fang Kompany on page 121 of superiority, would be much more fun than playing Vlad, Sorcha, etc. In multiplayer however it would be more prudent to have the standard warcasters so that you can balance them.

I originally thought that a Fallout 3 V.A.T.S. system would be perfect for this game because you can focus + attack, issue orders, and allocate focus/commands to warjacks and then when you are out of focus you can go back to shooting or attacking. With multiplayer however this won't work because you can't pause the game.

If you have a loadout of only 2-3 squads/warjacks you should be able to issue orders in real time by targeting the squad you want attacked and pressing a series of buttons without having to use radial or drop down menus. For instance, if you wanted to aim, shoot and boost damage you would use the analog stick to target, and hit LB+LT+RT. If you wanted to command a warjack in squad A to charge you would use the analog stick to target, hit X, Then hit LB+A. If you wanted a warjack in squad A to perform a throw on another warjack and boost damage you would use the analog stick to target, hit X, then hit LB+Direction pad up. For other commands please see my controller diagram.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1667/wirelesscontrollercallo.jpg

Additionally if you fielded 2 light warjacks as a squad option instead of just one you could technically field more units and you would have a reason to field a light warjack over a heavy.

I will post more ideas as they come unless you tell me not to. Also as a note, personally I think occupied llael would be a perfect setting for the game. As a Khador player I would really like to see snow and mountains, but french countryside is also awesome and it brings all four factions to a single area in a way that makes sense.

[Kaptajn Congoboy]

A bit overdetailed since the game at the moment seems to consist of two 'jack models and a rendering of Sorcha?

Personally, I am very interested in how they envisage the bond between the warcaster and the 'jacks. Since we're not actually sure that this is a true first person perspective game, it might be a bit early to speculate and rave.

Aw, what the hell. Let me repeat myself for the umpteenth time.

Once upon a time there was a horror author:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/CliveBarker.jpg/200px-CliveBarker.jpg

Who wrote some really decent books:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Weaveworld2001.jpg/230px-Weaveworld2001.jpg

And some books I really didn't care all that much for:

http://ebooks-imgs.connect.com/ebooks/product/400/000/000/000/000/046/200/400000000000000046200_s4.jpg

...and of course, it was those books that were made into a movie series that, while scary and fun when I was 12, frankly sucks and keeps on sucking:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c4/Hellraiser_poster.png/200px-Hellraiser_poster.png

I mean, look at the guy!

"I am ultimate evil. Ultimate evil means hooks and shit. Nothing is more evil than somebody cutting you with sharp knives".

Yawn.

[Kaptajn Congoboy]

Ahem.

Now once upon a time this author started cooperating with computer game authors. He produced a game that sucked:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Undyingcover.jpg

...and another game that sucked:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/89/Clbrkjerichocov11.jpg/256px-Clbrkjerichocov11.jpg

...the last through some amazingly bad level design, dumb as a brick AI, and too little attention to what would actually be fun to play.

BUT

The last game had a real interesting mechanic where you (as the squad leader of your supernatural commando squad, that dies in the game's first scene and subsequently discovers that he, living on as a ghost) can possess the other squad members and use their abilities alongside his own. This possession system was great fun and actually worked well. Through a few simple taps, you could jump between the different squaddies, which made for some real interesting combat and gameplay situations as you combined their powers with your own, directing combat from the front seat.

Now if Whitemoon Dreams could produce something like that for the jack-warcaster dynamic...not a copy, of course, but something along those lines (and, you know, actually build a good game around it...I recall one level in Jericho where I actually wondered whether the game was bugged...I spent over an hour in the same mid-level fight against a seemingly endless horde of two repeatedly respawning enemies) - where the player can "possess" the jacks - the indication I get from the Warmachine fluff is that this is, more or less, what happens when he or she (or it) increases their performance. It could make for some great gaming moments, where you use your 'jacks as advance troops, trying to kill off the enemy warcaster with 'jacks and arced spells, jumping from 'jack to 'jack while simultaneously commanding your troops. Confusing? Well...perhaps. But this was the only thing that really worked in Jericho, and you had a squad of six people, which is a pretty big battlegroup.

Good idea? Sucky idea? I dunno. What are Whitemoon Dreams designers' take on the dynamic?

[Kaptajn Congoboy]

A note on Llael. I agree with thegeeksquad that it would be fine setting place for the SP game - most Warmachine factions have reasons to be there - but Llael isn't, geography-wise, a very 'french countryside' sort of place. Its geography is very varied, from the farmlands of Southryne to the valleys and forests of the duchy of Voxsauny and the mountains of New Umbrey and Northryne. The kingdom is also quite urbanized and commercial, with the Rhul trade along the Black River and the (now nationalized by Khador) Order of the Golden Crucible production of blasting power being major sources of income.

[Randall]

I want to see something about the game, for example a write interview I actually could read, ( spoken English is quite difficult to me), or a demo video tease (like the grind one, even if it's not actual ingame, but to transmit us the idea developer team has in mind), before discuss concrete things.

But, things I'd like to see in a WARMACHINE game:

An Hordes expansion :P

Building, buy, repair, take parts, improve warjacks. Both in abilities (bonds, imprints...) to in the mechanic part (in a campaign, they take damage and, if you recover the parts, have to repair the jacks, a bit like the X-Com games, but taking care of a "squad" of 'jacks instead of a squad of men.

Awesome magic powers for the warcasters

If things are succesful, a expansion, 1.5 game, that allows to create a custom independent warcaster and fight for the liberation of Llael, or playing a mercenary 'caster and make things I mentioned above, using modified laborjacks, pieces you scrap for the field and a slightly diferent way to manage your economy/army in an awesome campaign.

At this point, it seems I want too much a good managing part :D, something that could you take time to build an army, and personalize it (even if it's only stetics personalization, without changing weapons or abilities)


the most awesome thing in the world would be that you can online playing with players with other systems, make pc vs xbox vs ps3 games possible, if this make some sense

[tehgeeksquad]

I would also like to see a system for warjack repair, upgrades, weapons, and bonds.

Unit veterancy would also be nice.

[Einherjar]

Actually I'd be against unit veterancy. Bonds for jacks sure, that makes sense. But I don't think the units should be given the same advantage. Keep the battlegroup as the focus.

[Skyydragonn]

Actually I'd be against unit veterancy. Bonds for jacks sure, that makes sense. But I don't think the units should be given the same advantage. Keep the battlegroup as the focus.

have to agree with this here. lets not create a video version of infantry machine. troops sre MEANT to be disposable in warmachine. the focus was meant to be on the warcaster and thier warjacks, with the troopers falling into the background as support for the warcasters battlegroup. Allowing vertan troops means you return to the masses of infantry to defeat your opponent instead of using the 18 Tons of smoldering steamjack at your disposal.

[tehgeeksquad]

Well just because unit veterancy is in the game doesn't mean it has to be OP. My assumption was the warjacks were going to get a lot of focus in the game, with upgrades, bonds, parts, and weapons so that giving a unit veterancy would keep them useful, not make them ridiculously OP. Besides who would take a unit over a giant machine that could rip another machine in half or throw a man a over a mile.

[Skyydragonn]

Well just because unit veterancy is in the game doesn't mean it has to be OP. My assumption was the warjacks were going to get a lot of focus in the game, with upgrades, bonds, parts, and weapons so that giving a unit veterancy would keep them useful, not make them ridiculously OP. Besides who would take a unit over a giant machine that could rip another machine in half or throw a man a over a mile.

You'd really have to go check around the Warmachine forums and ask about what the term "infantry machine" really means. As for warjacks getting upgrades....IF they are going to keep with the core of warmachine there wont be many options for upgrading your warjack.

Each warjack was built with a specific purpose in mind.
I'm going to hazard a guess you dont play the actual tabletop game.
I would reccomend you find a local gaming store and check out the game in its original form. I'de even go far as to say read the core rulebook just for the setting info. It will really help you get a sense of the game setting and feel.

[tehgeeksquad]

You'd really have to go check around the Warmachine forums and ask about what the term "infantry machine" really means. As for warjacks getting upgrades....IF they are going to keep with the core of warmachine there wont be many options for upgrading your warjack.

Each warjack was built with a specific purpose in mind.
I'm going to hazard a guess you dont play the actual tabletop game.
I would reccomend you find a local gaming store and check out the game in its original form. I'de even go far as to say read the core rulebook just for the setting info. It will really help you get a sense of the game setting and feel.

I have played the game for almost 2 years now, I have read the books and understand the game perfectly well. I have played both warjack heavy and infantry heavy lists.

I was offering the suggestion that a warjack chassis could be modified easily into several different warjacks of the same chassis. Additionally warjacks could be upgraded with more stable cortex's or cortex's that augment their personality or abilities, additional armor, or higher capacity boilers. In my opinion that would add another layer to the game that would make warjacks come to life.

If this were put into the game, and I hope it is, unit veterancy would be something that would keep units from becoming useless.

[tehgeeksquad]

Being able to change your paint scheme or company/division logo would be something I would also really like to see in the game.

Veteran units are in the game, they are just called elite cadre. Seeing as how it idea is offensive to everyone however I will just leave it at that.

[Skyydragonn]

I have played the game for almost 2 years now, I have read the books and understand the game perfectly well. I have played both warjack heavy and infantry heavy lists.

I was offering the suggestion that a warjack chassis could be modified easily into several different warjacks of the same chassis. Additionally warjacks could be upgraded with more stable cortex's or cortex's that augment their personality or abilities, additional armor, or higher capacity boilers. In my opinion that would add another layer to the game that would make warjacks come to life.

If this were put into the game, and I hope it is, unit veterancy would be something that would keep units from becoming useless.
apologies then, from your earlier post it didn't come across clearly that you had in fact played the tabletop game. While I think that cortex and boiler upgrades could be a fun idea. I'm really againt the idea of "veteran" troop units, solo's sur but troops not so much. the whole idea behind troops is that they are in fact disposable. Something that Warmachine MKI had begun to lose was the focus on the warcaster/warjack bond and battlegroup. With the upcoming MKII release you can clearly see that PP is trying to alter course to bring the focus away from infantry and back to the caster/jack battlegroup. So I can see things like corex upgrades to help improve your casters focus effeciency.

The main reason I say no to vertan status for troops, is that at no point should a unit of troopers be stronger/better than a warjack interms of survivablity and or damage output. Which is where warmachine MKI had begun to fail.

[Skyydragonn]

Being able to change your paint scheme or company/division logo would be something I would also really like to see in the game.

Veteran units are in the game, they are just called elite cadre. Seeing as how it idea is offensive to everyone however I will just leave it at that.

I'm pretty sure demand for "painting" your army will be high enough that it'll make it into the final product (hopefully it will be amazingly executed as well!)

as for elite cadre they are simply a specfic warcasters favored troop's And thier benefits are often negligeable ( immune to terror for example, which rarely came up unless you were facing Cryx) and never provided any statistical benefits to the unit. More commonly it was granted abilities

Feora for example gave any Temple flamgeuard in her army the critical fire effect

While Kreoss granted "fearless" to any Knights examplar in his army.

Sure they could implement it, would I aprove of it, probably not. Would it ruin the game for me, hardly.

[Randall]

apologies then, from your earlier post it didn't come across clearly that you had in fact played the tabletop game. While I think that cortex and boiler upgrades could be a fun idea. I'm really againt the idea of "veteran" troop units, solo's sur but troops not so much. the whole idea behind troops is that they are in fact disposable. Something that Warmachine MKI had begun to lose was the focus on the warcaster/warjack bond and battlegroup. With the upcoming MKII release you can clearly see that PP is trying to alter course to bring the focus away from infantry and back to the caster/jack battlegroup. So I can see things like corex upgrades to help improve your casters focus effeciency.

The main reason I say no to vertan status for troops, is that at no point should a unit of troopers be stronger/better than a warjack interms of survivablity and or damage output. Which is where warmachine MKI had begun to fail.

Being the game not a translation of the tabletop to computer, but battles within the IK, there is no necessity yet, I think, to blame a system that we don't kno nothing about it.

In function of how the game will be made, it could be troops upgrade, and yet be zillion of times weaker than any warjack. Is like claiming about a powerful feat.

[Skyydragonn]

Being the game not a translation of the tabletop to computer, but battles within the IK, there is no necessity yet, I think, to blame a system that we don't kno nothing about it.
Can you link to any referance that it isn't a translation fo the tabletop game?
or anything to that effect?
No one is talking about blaming a system (whether or not we know anything about it) simply I'm stating my opinion that the relaince on infantry took much away from the original feel of the tabletop game and if they are to stick to what makes the tabletop so much fun, they should steer away from making the same mistake that Privateer press did. Since Privateer has since made painstaking efforts to bring the focus back to thier original intention.

In function of how the game will be made, it could be troops upgrade, and yet be zillion of times weaker than any warjack. Is like claiming about a powerful feat.
could you elaborate your point a bit more please. I''m not sure i'm understanding your point on this bit.

[Randall]

In the podcasts and interviews they say about a action game, with violent battles, not a strategy RTS game with army configuration where a "infantrymachine" or any other tabletop game issue could be a concern for the players.

IF they put warjacks and troops, and, let's say, in this videogame warjacks are way better, more effective, etc... than troops, and both warjacks and troops have options for upgrade, it can be made in a way than a troop still is weaker than a warjack.

[CallmeMerry]

As far as Warjacks being so much more powerful than troopers, that's an easy answer, but the benefits to troops is that you can have 6+ models per standard unit in the game, and a full unit is capable of putting out as much damage as jacks, but it's usually just more spread out, and a full unit can be harder to kill if played correctly. Trying to make a mechanic to control entire units is going to turn it into a RTS or turn-based, but since it sounds like it's going to be an action game, it really won't work. There could be different multiplayer modes, one that is similar to the action game and run like a mangled metal format, or a translation of the tabletop game into a turn-based system.

While I definitely think it would be more fun to be a caster I would have created, I think the focus of the game is definitely the jacks. Plus, every caster in the game has their own feat, unique weapon(s), special abilities, and spells. The base stats would be easy enough following a standard RPG leveling system, but there would have to be a complete system to make a feat (assuming with animations), a system to design a weapon for each caster, have a list of special abilities (would be easy in comparison to the previous two), and same with a spell list (easiest).

Being able to design your own jacks seems like it's the best system. The base stats could be designed by a simple RPG system, and being able to interchange simple things on interchangable weapons would be sweet (chain weapons, add length to give it reach...), and abilities like thresher to give each jack a different style. Definitely something that would keep my interest for a while. Another thing that I think would be amazing is the implementation of character jacks and being able to give jacks imprints, but that's another one of those things where it's just to hard to make something completely unique by using a system with a set amount of choices...